Here is the epic conclusion to the greatest list ever composed. If you’ve missed anything at all here is 25-21, 20-16, 15-11, and 10-6.
A little bit of required reading for this part today since two of the parties mentioned were involved in one of the craziest, real moments in the history of the business. I wrote about that a couple months ago which you can find here. Have to plug my own stuff every now and again. But enough of that. Here are numbers 5-1:
5. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin
Joe: Austin was the savior of the WWF in the 90s. After being fired from WCW, he went to work in ECW where he did awesome promos and planted the seeds for what would become the “Stone Cold” character that would usher in the “Attitude Era” and save the business. The Attitude Era began with two key moments involving Stone Cold. First, after winning King of the Ring in 1996 Austin got on the mic and addressed Jake Roberts, whose gimmick became that he was a super Christian. Austin said that while Jake talks about John 3:16, “Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass.” And with that a star was born. The next year at WrestleMania he faced Bret Hart in a submission match. Hart busts him wide open and throws him in the Sharpshooter. Austin is bleeding everywhere, screaming in pain, then passes out without ever submitting. The image of Austin with blood running down onto his teeth, screaming in agony made him into The Man. That match also turned him face and is what started him on the path to becoming one of the top three stars ever. Of course, the entire Austin craze almost didn’t happen when Owen Hart botched a piledriver and broke Austin’s neck in 1997. Six years later, problems stemming from that would cause Austin to retire but he worked one final WrestleMania with The Rock to finish things off right. Austin was wrestling’s biggest star since Hulk Hogan and was the reason the WWF was successful enough to put WCW out of business. He was the man, and if that rumored match between him and CM Punk takes place at next year’s WrestleMania it will be an amazing last hurrah for Stone Cold.
Jimmy: I was never really a fan of Austin, but I understand his importance. As a matter of fact, I stopped watching WWF when he took off as the top face because I thought it was just trashy and I ended up missing most of the Attitude Era as a result. Austin was the first real anti-hero to become popular in mainstream wrestling, as before him it was traditional face and heel alignment. His Stone Cold Steve Austin run is really what got him this high on the list, as I’m pretty sure that it was the highest grossing run in wrestling history. His WCW days as the Hollywood Blond Stunning Steve Austin were marked by techincal proficiency, but he never really made it past the midcard. His brief run in ECW showcased his true charisma and shades of the character that became Stone Cold. As for that character, Stone Cold changed everything for WWF and brought it back from the verge of collapse. Every major character after that point either went two paths - Hoganesque unstoppable face or anti-authoritarian sociopath. He had two great matches with Bret Hart between 1996 and 1997 that really put him over and was a part of legendary feuds with Vince McMahon and the Rock. The Vince feud set the template for essentially every Vince McMahon storyline since, but at the time it was revolutionary. I also very much enjoyed his time during the WCW/ECW Alliance period and subsequent fallout when he was just flat out weird.
4. Shawn Michaels
Jimmy: Another guy I never really liked during his prime, but I will confess to enjoying his run between 2003 and 2009. Part of my experience with HBK is tainted by the fact that I always liked Bret Hart more and thought Michaels was a woman. That probably came out of the fact that he superkicked Marty Jannetty through a plate glass window and ended the teaming of the Rockers, the most awesome tag team ever, an act I never forgave him for. Of course due to this, I overlooked the fact he had a great match with Kevin “Diesel” Nash, no small feat. His promos were great in DX and were the first time I thought he was interesting. The fact that he was a total dick that refused to job to anyone and was basically forced to usher in the Austin Era certainly never helped make him more likeable to me either. His comeback in the 2000s after a lengthy injury turned me into a fan though. He had a couple great matches with Triple H (and some really overdone ones) and a few great storylines with Chris Jericho. He was part of two of the best matches of the decade - the Wrestlemania 20 Triple Threat with Triple H and Benoit and at Wrestlemania 21 with Kurt Angle. The Angle one in particular was one of the best matches I’ve ever seen. He “retired” Ric Flair in one of the most memorable bouts in Wrestlemania history, managed to get a watchable match out of mid-2000s Hogan and carried Triple H in the second DX run. Joe had him at 2 and I had him at 9. I probably jobbed him out a bit, but he screwed Bret so fuck him.
Joe: WWE says that Michaels is the greatest of all time, but that is not exactly the case. He also serious ego and drug problems in the 90s, most of which are detailed in the Montreal Screwjob piece I linked to above. Luckily his run in the 2000s saved his career and made it more than just a career with some good matches but loads of off-screen trouble. He had to retire in 1998 due to back issues but came back in 2002. In the 90s, his match with Mick Foley at Mind Games, the Ironman match with Bret Hart at WrestleMania XII, the ladder match with Scott Hall at WrestleMania X, and the first Hell in a Cell with Undertaker were all-time greats, but his best work was still years away. He regularly put on classics in the 2000s. Jericho at Mania XIX, Triple H and Benoit at Mania XX, Angle at Mania 21, Undertaker at Mania 25 are four of the best matches in WWE history. The match with Ric Flair’s career on the line at WrestleMania XXIV was outstanding and it was because of Michaels’ amazing in-ring ability that the Nature Boy’s last WWE match was a terrific send off. In the 90s the WWE wanted you to believe Michaels could work with anybody and put on a show unlike anything you’d seen, but it wasn’t until the 2000s he started living that. While I think his gimmick of being the “boy toy” and the fact he wasn’t even the best worker of his generation in the 90s work against him, the fact he was putting on clinics night in and night out in the 2000s solidifies his spot as a great.
3. Ric Flair
Jimmy: Ric Flair is probably the greatest combination of workrate and charisma. His promos from his time in NWA/WCW through his first WWF run were absolute gold. Through these and his “Flair vs. broomstick” style, he made deadweight like Magnum TA, Lex Luger and Sting look like absolute gods and had feuds with Terry Funk and Ricky Steamboat that set the bar pretty high for quality. The original 4 Horsemen set the bar for every stable in pro wrestling that wasn’t the Road Warriors or nWo (in all its incarnations). When he came to WWF as “the Real World’s Champion” and won the 1992 Royal Rumble in an epic performance, I wept like a baby. He was such a heel! When he returned to WCW in the mid-90s, it was a bit lackluster as Hogan ran train on the company and Flair ceased to be Flair. His return to the WWE in the early 2000s was great and his stint as Triple H’s manager was the best part of Triple H at that time. His antics ringside were the only watchable part of H’s matches with Scott Steiner in 2003 and Flair did all the work in getting the Evolution stable over since Orton was too green, Batista was a hoss and Triple H is charismatically challenged sometimes. When Orton turned face, he and Naitch had an amazing steel cage match that I didn’t think either man was capable of having. His final WWE match against Shawn Michaels was a fitting tribute to his career and I wish it had stayed that way. Instead he is in TNA, rehashing old feuds with Mick Foley and acting like a senile coot. Excepting his TNA run, I think the best thing you can say about Ric Flair is that he puts his all into it every single night and truly loves being part of the business. That isn’t something you can say about a lot of wrestlers.
Joe: The 16-time World Champion, the Nature Boy. Ric Flair was the guy for the NWA and WCW in the 80s. When you talk about great promo guys, Naitch is right there at the top. The classic lines are all there like, “My shoes cost more than your house!” or “stylin’ and profilin’”. Before Vince McMahon and the WWF turned wrestling into a nation-wide phenomenon, there were territories all over the country. When the NWA would roll into a territory, Flair would go out and work a match with the territory’s big star. Flair would let the guy kick the shit out of him for a half hour then he’d win in some cheap, total heel way to keep the belt but the local guy would look like a king. As wrestling got bigger, this worked against Flair. The big knock on Naitch is that he works the same match every time. That worked in the territory days since only locals would see those matches, but as wrestling became global you couldn’t always do the same spots. Generally, I feel it doesn’t really matter because of what I call the AC/DC Theory. AC/DC has had a formula since the 70s that has always worked and they stick to it and it rules. Same goes for Flair. And really Flair could go for 60 minutes any night and that is a special talent. His matches with Ricky Steamboat were always legendary and his match with Randy Savage at WrestleMania VIII is one of the less talked about classics. Also, he made stars out of guys like Sting. He put guys like Magnum TA over. He could make anybody look like a threat, and the willingness to do that is rare in the business. Even in promos he would take the time to put everybody over. His stable, the Four Horsemen, set the standard for every wrestling stable ever. Flair is slowly killing his legacy in TNA now, but here at BBB we will always cherish the good times. Same goes for the next guy.
2. Hulk Hogan
Joe: The single biggest star in the history of wrestling. Hogan is the most important guy in wrestling history other than Vince McMahon. He is also the biggest bastard in wrestling history other than Vince McMahon. For all the great moments the Hulkster has given us, which of course I will get to since I still love Hogan, his ego has robbed us of so many more. There was no match with Bret Hart in ‘93, Sting was made to look like a fool in WCW, and Shawn Michaels got jobbed out because of Hogan’s insatiable ego. As for the good stuff, Hogan had so much natural charisma he is the single reason wrestling ever became big enough that we could take the time to write this. Every little kid liked wrestling back in the day because of the Hulkster. He was the ultimate superhero. The three demandments of Hulkamania were to train, say your prayers, and take your vitamins. He was a role model for kids. As a worker, he was far from spectacular but if the match really mattered and he was in there with a good worker he could do his part. My brother pointed out Ultimate Warrior’s best match was the retirement match with Randy Savage. Warrior’s second best match is his match with Hogan, and that is because Hogan carries it and makes it watchable. Granted he wasn’t capable of a whole lot in the ring, but it didn’t matter since Hulkamania was the strongest force in the universe. Hogan’s promos were epic. His promo at Mania IV is a favorite and his promo at Mania V is the greatest promo ever in the history of the business. Grocery shopping with Mr. T was also amazing. Hogan could fire up a crowd, and as the power of Hulkamania dwindled in the ‘90s, he underwent the greatest transformation of any wrestler. Hulk Hogan, the paragon of virtue, turned his back on the fans and joined the nWo, becoming Hollywood Hulk Hogan. Not many people can say they were the biggest hero in one era and the biggest villain in another. As sad a spectacle as Hogan is now, there was a time when he was the greatest man on the face of the planet.
Jimmy: Pro wrestling exists to most people between the ages of 20-40 solely because of Hulk Hogan. He is the first real wrestling star to be a known commodity in the mainstream. Its easy to lose sight of this because of the fact he is a total scumbag with a shitty reality show and just generally turned into a shell of a man, but the fact remains Hulk Hogan is the biggest star in the history of professional wrestling. There’s no John Cena, there’s no Rock, there’s no a lot of people without Hogan there to set the template. He had the catchphrases, the finishing move, the merchandise (oh, the merchandise!) and the look. He also happens to be, along with Randy Savage and Rick Rude, the only person to get an enjoyable match out of the Ultimate Warrior. Hulkster was one of my childhood heroes between the ages of five and nine, as he was for probably every boy at that same time. He beat King Kong Bundy, slammed Andre, won the battle of the Mega Powers and beat Iraqi sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter. With Hogan, anything was possible. He followed up the steroid confession and decline of his face run in the early 1990s by shocking the world in 1996 and turning heel. His nWo promo at Bash at the Beach was one of the greatest of all-time and I have always believed that WWF couldn’t have gotten away with the Attitude Era if Hulk Hogan, the quintessential babyface hero, didn’t turn his back on the fans and become dastardly. Of course, like his face run, this heel turn went on too long and he monopolized the main event in WCW just as much as he did in WWF. His 2002 return started out well enough and I like to think of his career as essentially ending when he faced the Rock at Wrestlemania 18 in a great nostalgia match that showed the appreciation fans still had for him after a lackluster 1998-2001 in his career where he became an afterthought. Although he followed this up with an ill-fated title run, he did put over Brock Lesnar strongly. In 2005 and 2006 he showed he still had some juice and went over Michaels and Orton at consecutive Summerslams. Regardless of physical decline, Hogan kept his character strong and to that end that’s rare.
1. Bret Hart
Joe: When it comes to in-ring work, nobody is better than the Hitman. Bret was passable on the mic, but you don’t need to be that great on the mic when your gimmick is that you are the greatest technical wrestler in the world. A fitting gimmick considering he backed it up time and time again and proved that he truly was the Excellence of Execution. It wasn’t bullshit when he’d go out and call himself, “The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.” When tag team wrestling still meant something, Bret was a part of the successful Hart Foundation. As a singles star he made a habit of putting on some of the greatest matches of all time. To name a few: British Bulldog at SummerSlam ‘92, Mr. Perfect at King of the Ring ‘93, Owen Hart at WrestleMania X, Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XII, Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13, Undertaker at SummerSlam ‘97, and Chris Benoit in WCW. That match with Bulldog is the ultimate highlight of Bulldog’s career, with Bret putting him over in front of his hometown fans in London. Bret also put over Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin. Bret and Michaels worked the 60-minute Ironman match at WrestleMania XII that culminated in Michaels winning his first world title and beginning his time as the WWF’s golden boy. Luckily in the last few years the WWE has put the shame of the Montreal Screwjob behind them and embraced Hart’s legacy again. When the steroid scandal made wrestling a dirty word in the early 90s, Bret was the guy who carried the flag for the company. He was an extremely popular champion overseas when wrestling wasn’t big in America and he worked matches with anybody and everybody. He always made his opponents look good and never injured somebody in the ring. Current WWE Champion and future BBB Hall of Famer (such a hall doesn’t exist but it will at some point I’m sure) CM Punk summed it up by saying, “He is the perennial wrestler’s wrestler. No lie — best there is, best there was, best there will ever be.”
Jimmy: Bret Hart, apart from being my favorite wrestler, is the greatest worker of all-time by far. He could do technical masterpiece (Michaels, Perfect, Benoit) and he could do wild brawl (Austin). He could work a decent match with men with big men of average to subpar skills (Undertaker, Nash, Yokozuna) and he could put on a masterful performance against family (Owen, British Bulldog). He wasn’t the best talker, but he could get by and his in ring intensity and skills as a ring general overcame that. Bret Hart and Ted DibBiase worked a match together a long time ago that ended with Bret putting DiBiase in a small package, only to have the move reversed by the DiBiase for the win and it was the first time I ever understood the technical side of wrestling. Before that, it was Hogan and Warrior muscles and pomp. Bret was a workhorse and I loved that about him. Its sad that the defining moment of his WWF career became the Montreal Screwjob when it should be the fact that he successfully main evented shows with Bob Backlund in 1994 and did the most of any star in the company to get Steve Austin over, even turning heel for the first time to do so. He and Austin had amazing chemistry and their Wrestlemania XIII produced one of the most defining moments in that era, Austin covered in blood while in the Sharpshooter. His heel turn where he was popular in Canada and Europe and dastardly in the USA was well done and he made the most of it. It was a revelation to see how well he went with it. WCW completely blew his run, ruining first ever feuds with Hogan and making him look generally second-rate. Of course, if you ask Bret about this it is because Hogan was always afraid of him, in 1993 and in 1998. I know because I asked him when Joe and I met him. His career was cut short by a kick to the skull from Goldberg and a stroke a few years later, but it was nice to see him back on WWE TV the last few years and successfully close the book on his career with them. It went a long way to eliminating that image of him as a bitter, broken man and let him end his career with Vince McMahon on a high note.
So that is it! Thanks for reading!
Friday, March 30, 2012
Thursday, March 29, 2012
BBB's 25 Greatest Wrestlers of All Time: 10-6
The legend continues. We are now down to the top 10. If you missed the other parts here is 25-21, 20-16, 15-11. Here we go with numbers 10-6:
10. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Joe: Most people will say Andre the Giant is Hogan’s greatest rival, but to me it will forever be the Macho Man. The Mega Powers exploding at WrestleMania V is something I’ve written about before and is my favorite feud of all time and what I believe to be the best built Mania main event ever. He worked as a foil for Hulkamania because he was just as coked up as Hogan and equally incoherent. Randy Savage is probably known by most people as the Slim Jim guy, but aside from enjoying wonderful snack food he was one of the greatest performers to ever lace up a pair of boots. Savage was a terrific worker. The match with Ricky Steamboat from WrestleMania III is always hailed as a classic. Macho always had the coolest theme song and entrance gear. Miss Elizabeth, his real life wife, was one of the greatest managers of all time. From the time I was a little boy I’ve always been a big Macho Man fan and I was very sad when he died last year. The images of Savage doing the double axehandle smash off the top rope and the diving elbow drop are some of my earliest wrestling memories. I will always remember those more than his rap album where he calls out Hulk Hogan for a legit fight. Macho was a perfectionist in the ring and it is great to see the WWE start to embrace his legacy more over the last few years.
Jimmy: The Macho Man was an absolutely friggin ridiculous human being. I don’t even know what more to say besides that. He had the two best WWF matches of the 80s, at Wrestlemania III against Ricky Steamboat and V against Hogan. The Hogan feud in particular is the pinnacle of WWF’s creativity. The Mega Powers formation and explosion was so well done it is absolutely stunning that it came from the mind of Vince McMahon. His career vs. career match and feud carried the Ultimate Warrior to the greatest match that goof was ever capable of having. Therein lies the beauty of Savage - while his character, voice and mannerisms were absurdly over the top, he deserved his spot since he was a better worker than most in the ring. He was also the greatest pro wrestler to take up a career as a rapper. The best thing you can say about Randy Savage was that no matter how serious or how ridiculous the storyline he was involved in, he was alway believable and he never phoned it in.
9. Chris Jericho
Joe: If there was an MVP award in professional wrestling, Chris Jericho would totally get it for carrying the WWE and being the most entertaining part of Monday Night Raw, the company’s flagship show, from the fall of 2002 through 2005. WCW failed because they never built up new stars other than Goldberg, but if they had been smart they would have pushed Jericho all the way to the top. There are only maybe two or three guys ahead of Jericho on this list I would say are better in-ring workers, and when it comes to mic skills only Flair and The Rock may be better. He can be hilarious or deadly serious and always the most entertaining guy on the screen while he does it. You could put Jericho in any feud or put any championship on him. He made Shelton Benjamin look like a threat and he gave Cena the rub. There’s nothing Jericho can’t do, and of course his career highlight is being the first WWE Undisputed Champion, beating The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin in the same night. Despite that honor, Jericho never got the super push he deserved and Triple H made him look like a punk numerous times in the early 2000s. His debut in the WWF is probably the greatest debut in the history of wrestling and he had two incredible feuds with Shawn Michaels in 2003 and 2008 that each had classic matches: their WrestleMania match in 2003 and their ladder match for the World Championship in 2008.
Jimmy: I’m a bit partial towards Jericho, as I believe he was the best part of WCW and WWE at various times during his runs there. In WCW, he was the Man of 1004 Holds and owner of Ralphus Security, and if not for the old-timers running the company, could have pushed the cruiserweights into the main event where they belonged. He came to the WWF with a ton of momentum, where it was promptly thwarted by Triple H. Despite that, he managed to get the honor of unifying the WCW and WWF titles by beating the Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin in the same nite, a remarkable feat for someone who was never pushed as hard as either man. From 2002-2005, he carried RAW and was the only consistently entertaining performer on the show. I’m not as big a fan of his run in WWE the past few years, but I also haven’t really watched it with any consistently. The best thing you can say about Jericho is that he could either open the show or main event and it worked. While he was always pushed to the mid-to upper mid-card, he could always believably main event and fans could buy into him enough to know that he could be champion. If this list was favorite wrestlers of all-time, Jericho would be in my top 5 with (in no particular order) Bret, Hogan, Mr. Perfect and Sabu.
8. The Undertaker
Jimmy: The perfect marriage between performer and gimmick, there is no logical reason for the Undertaker to have been so successful and still popular nearly 25 years after his debut. It is a testament to Mark Callaway’s charisma that he and only he could make this character work from its roots as a dead dude to Satanic cult leader in the Ministry of Darkness to American BadAss to back to the Dead Man. I feel like part of this is due to the fact that he is a considerably better worker than most big men in pro wrestling and that the workhorses like Hart and Flair loved working matches with him. I’m fairly certain every gimmick match ever performed that isn’t a steel cage match came out of a feud with Undertaker. He never really was the number 1 guy in the company, but he was rewarded by getting to win at Wrestlemania every single time and it has defined his career. An added bonus to that is the fact that over the past five years or so, his Mania matches, while predictable in outcome, have been great. All in all, a pretty great career for someone who should have had a one or two year lifespan, tops.
Joe: This is a weird way to phrase this, but while Taker isn’t the greatest wrestler of all time he is probably the greatest WWE Superstar ever. This November it will be 22 years since he made his debut at Survivor Series. He never jumped ship to WCW. He is a homegrown WWE star and has been there longer than anybody else. It is the perfect union of performer and gimmick, as the idea of this large unstoppable dead guy who whoops everybody’s ass never could have worked with anybody else. He will most likely extend his WrestleMania record to 20-0 this weekend, a record that will never be touched. Taker is the best working big man in the history of the business and has been praised for his ability and professionalism by guys like Ric Flair, JBL, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and many others. Taker is one of the most over guys in the history of the business. The second the lights go out and that gong hits the crowd is ready to explode. His entrance may take like 10 minutes, but it is still exciting every time. Of course Undertaker jobs to nobody and you could literally count on one hand the times in his career he has lost clean, but he is the heart and soul of the WWE locker room. Taker had the bizarre run as the American Badass where he became some kind of hardcore biker who liked Limp Bizkit, but he’s since returned to the Deadman persona that got him to the dance.
7. Andre the Giant
Jimmy: I ranked Andre 3rd overall and Joe had him at 12, but I don’t think he fully understands just what a massive star Andre the Giant was. In an era now where massive men are par for the course, Andre would still be bigger and in the pre-ppv and cable days of the 70s and 80s there was no one more important. He carried the industry into the Hulkamania days and his feud with the aforementioned Hulkster really put Hogan over the top. Prior to that, Andre was viewed as the undefeated, immovable object both by fans and everyone in the industry. Grantland recently posted a great article about this feud and how important it was that states the case far better than I can, but I’ll sum it up. Basically, Andre didn’t do the job for anyone and certainly wouldn’t let himself get bodyslammed by someone. The only way the defining moment of Hogan’s career and 80s WWF happens is if Andre lets it, despite Hogan’s claims that he manhandled the Giant. The consensus has always been Hogan was shitting himself because Andre could be mercurial and may have refused to do the job or the slam mid-match and there wouldn’t have been anything Hogan could do. But, it didn’t work out this way and not only did he turn heel for the first time in his career for this feud, but he allowed the slam in the biggest Mania main event of all-time to this day. It was the only time Hogan was the physical underdog and they managed to tell a story and blow up the Silverdome with the slam and push Hulkamania into a new level. Simply put, Hogan never becomes the most powerful wrestler in the world and the WWF doesn’t jump off into the stratosphere without that moment.
Joe: I’m never a fan of big guys since they can’t actually work a match, but Andre was great for what he was. He set the standard for the big, badass giant and is the reason that in the last like 25 years no other big guy has worked since everybody comes off as a bad Andre rip off. One of the biggest stars in the history of the business, Andre took part in the biggest WrestleMania main event ever when he faced off against Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania III. Hogan bodyslams him in front of 90,000 people and Hulkamania becomes the strongest force in the universe. I don’t have as much interest in Andre as my brother, but I always love the stories Hulk Hogan has of Andre shitting in bathtubs and stuff. To this day he remains one of the most popular figures in the history of the business and it is because of that main event with Hogan that the Hulkster could become the super duper star that would carry wrestling into the mainstream.
6. The Rock
Joe: The jabroni beating, pie eating, trail blazing, eyebrow raising People’s Champion, The Rock has charisma unrivaled by almost everybody. He is mainly a movie star now but in the last year has vowed to be more of a part of the WWE again. While never a terrific in-ring worker, his promos made him the biggest star on the planet other than Steve Austin. His matches with Austin at WrestleMania X-7 and XIX are classics, and his matches with Hogan at X8 and the upcoming bout with Cena at XXVIII are two of the biggest the WWE has ever had. His charisma is unstoppable. All he has to do is raise one eyebrow and everybody goes wild. The crowd’s reaction to his return last year when his music hit was one of the most insane things I’ve ever seen in the WWE. The Rock is so entertaining it is ridiculous and people eat up everything he says. He is one of the three biggest stars in the history of wrestling along with Hogan and Austin and with his crossover popularity he may be the biggest. The fact WWE put his name on the marquee for WrestleMania XXVIII a year in advance and have already said he’ll be a part of next year’s show is proof.
Jimmy: The most successful wrestler besides maybe Hogan, the Rock was a decent worker with through the roof charisma. Probably the most charismatic entertainer in WWF/E history, the man was a walking catchphrase machine. What is unprecedented about the Rock is that for a guy who was a number one draw he was more than willing to do the job for someone else to get them over. He did the most of anyone to get Brock Lesnar over on his way out to become a movie star and made Mick Foley a credible rival for the title. I can’t think of anyone that he didn’t have an interesting feud with, to the point where he even made Hurricane Helms watchable. While the next person on this list really jumpstarted the Attitude Era, the Rock was the one that took it to its zenith and managed to transcend pro wrestling in a way that even the Hulkster couldn’t. While many criticize him for leaving the business, its a testament to just how popular he really was that he could leave the industry and have a career in real movies and not tripe like Mr. Nanny or Santa With Muscles. This weekend he headlines Wrestlemania with John Cena, giving him two of the biggest selling matches in the past decade for the WWE.
That is it for today. The conclusion will most likely come tomorrow.
10. “Macho Man” Randy Savage
Joe: Most people will say Andre the Giant is Hogan’s greatest rival, but to me it will forever be the Macho Man. The Mega Powers exploding at WrestleMania V is something I’ve written about before and is my favorite feud of all time and what I believe to be the best built Mania main event ever. He worked as a foil for Hulkamania because he was just as coked up as Hogan and equally incoherent. Randy Savage is probably known by most people as the Slim Jim guy, but aside from enjoying wonderful snack food he was one of the greatest performers to ever lace up a pair of boots. Savage was a terrific worker. The match with Ricky Steamboat from WrestleMania III is always hailed as a classic. Macho always had the coolest theme song and entrance gear. Miss Elizabeth, his real life wife, was one of the greatest managers of all time. From the time I was a little boy I’ve always been a big Macho Man fan and I was very sad when he died last year. The images of Savage doing the double axehandle smash off the top rope and the diving elbow drop are some of my earliest wrestling memories. I will always remember those more than his rap album where he calls out Hulk Hogan for a legit fight. Macho was a perfectionist in the ring and it is great to see the WWE start to embrace his legacy more over the last few years.
Jimmy: The Macho Man was an absolutely friggin ridiculous human being. I don’t even know what more to say besides that. He had the two best WWF matches of the 80s, at Wrestlemania III against Ricky Steamboat and V against Hogan. The Hogan feud in particular is the pinnacle of WWF’s creativity. The Mega Powers formation and explosion was so well done it is absolutely stunning that it came from the mind of Vince McMahon. His career vs. career match and feud carried the Ultimate Warrior to the greatest match that goof was ever capable of having. Therein lies the beauty of Savage - while his character, voice and mannerisms were absurdly over the top, he deserved his spot since he was a better worker than most in the ring. He was also the greatest pro wrestler to take up a career as a rapper. The best thing you can say about Randy Savage was that no matter how serious or how ridiculous the storyline he was involved in, he was alway believable and he never phoned it in.
9. Chris Jericho
Joe: If there was an MVP award in professional wrestling, Chris Jericho would totally get it for carrying the WWE and being the most entertaining part of Monday Night Raw, the company’s flagship show, from the fall of 2002 through 2005. WCW failed because they never built up new stars other than Goldberg, but if they had been smart they would have pushed Jericho all the way to the top. There are only maybe two or three guys ahead of Jericho on this list I would say are better in-ring workers, and when it comes to mic skills only Flair and The Rock may be better. He can be hilarious or deadly serious and always the most entertaining guy on the screen while he does it. You could put Jericho in any feud or put any championship on him. He made Shelton Benjamin look like a threat and he gave Cena the rub. There’s nothing Jericho can’t do, and of course his career highlight is being the first WWE Undisputed Champion, beating The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin in the same night. Despite that honor, Jericho never got the super push he deserved and Triple H made him look like a punk numerous times in the early 2000s. His debut in the WWF is probably the greatest debut in the history of wrestling and he had two incredible feuds with Shawn Michaels in 2003 and 2008 that each had classic matches: their WrestleMania match in 2003 and their ladder match for the World Championship in 2008.
Jimmy: I’m a bit partial towards Jericho, as I believe he was the best part of WCW and WWE at various times during his runs there. In WCW, he was the Man of 1004 Holds and owner of Ralphus Security, and if not for the old-timers running the company, could have pushed the cruiserweights into the main event where they belonged. He came to the WWF with a ton of momentum, where it was promptly thwarted by Triple H. Despite that, he managed to get the honor of unifying the WCW and WWF titles by beating the Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin in the same nite, a remarkable feat for someone who was never pushed as hard as either man. From 2002-2005, he carried RAW and was the only consistently entertaining performer on the show. I’m not as big a fan of his run in WWE the past few years, but I also haven’t really watched it with any consistently. The best thing you can say about Jericho is that he could either open the show or main event and it worked. While he was always pushed to the mid-to upper mid-card, he could always believably main event and fans could buy into him enough to know that he could be champion. If this list was favorite wrestlers of all-time, Jericho would be in my top 5 with (in no particular order) Bret, Hogan, Mr. Perfect and Sabu.
8. The Undertaker
Jimmy: The perfect marriage between performer and gimmick, there is no logical reason for the Undertaker to have been so successful and still popular nearly 25 years after his debut. It is a testament to Mark Callaway’s charisma that he and only he could make this character work from its roots as a dead dude to Satanic cult leader in the Ministry of Darkness to American BadAss to back to the Dead Man. I feel like part of this is due to the fact that he is a considerably better worker than most big men in pro wrestling and that the workhorses like Hart and Flair loved working matches with him. I’m fairly certain every gimmick match ever performed that isn’t a steel cage match came out of a feud with Undertaker. He never really was the number 1 guy in the company, but he was rewarded by getting to win at Wrestlemania every single time and it has defined his career. An added bonus to that is the fact that over the past five years or so, his Mania matches, while predictable in outcome, have been great. All in all, a pretty great career for someone who should have had a one or two year lifespan, tops.
Joe: This is a weird way to phrase this, but while Taker isn’t the greatest wrestler of all time he is probably the greatest WWE Superstar ever. This November it will be 22 years since he made his debut at Survivor Series. He never jumped ship to WCW. He is a homegrown WWE star and has been there longer than anybody else. It is the perfect union of performer and gimmick, as the idea of this large unstoppable dead guy who whoops everybody’s ass never could have worked with anybody else. He will most likely extend his WrestleMania record to 20-0 this weekend, a record that will never be touched. Taker is the best working big man in the history of the business and has been praised for his ability and professionalism by guys like Ric Flair, JBL, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, and many others. Taker is one of the most over guys in the history of the business. The second the lights go out and that gong hits the crowd is ready to explode. His entrance may take like 10 minutes, but it is still exciting every time. Of course Undertaker jobs to nobody and you could literally count on one hand the times in his career he has lost clean, but he is the heart and soul of the WWE locker room. Taker had the bizarre run as the American Badass where he became some kind of hardcore biker who liked Limp Bizkit, but he’s since returned to the Deadman persona that got him to the dance.
7. Andre the Giant
Jimmy: I ranked Andre 3rd overall and Joe had him at 12, but I don’t think he fully understands just what a massive star Andre the Giant was. In an era now where massive men are par for the course, Andre would still be bigger and in the pre-ppv and cable days of the 70s and 80s there was no one more important. He carried the industry into the Hulkamania days and his feud with the aforementioned Hulkster really put Hogan over the top. Prior to that, Andre was viewed as the undefeated, immovable object both by fans and everyone in the industry. Grantland recently posted a great article about this feud and how important it was that states the case far better than I can, but I’ll sum it up. Basically, Andre didn’t do the job for anyone and certainly wouldn’t let himself get bodyslammed by someone. The only way the defining moment of Hogan’s career and 80s WWF happens is if Andre lets it, despite Hogan’s claims that he manhandled the Giant. The consensus has always been Hogan was shitting himself because Andre could be mercurial and may have refused to do the job or the slam mid-match and there wouldn’t have been anything Hogan could do. But, it didn’t work out this way and not only did he turn heel for the first time in his career for this feud, but he allowed the slam in the biggest Mania main event of all-time to this day. It was the only time Hogan was the physical underdog and they managed to tell a story and blow up the Silverdome with the slam and push Hulkamania into a new level. Simply put, Hogan never becomes the most powerful wrestler in the world and the WWF doesn’t jump off into the stratosphere without that moment.
Joe: I’m never a fan of big guys since they can’t actually work a match, but Andre was great for what he was. He set the standard for the big, badass giant and is the reason that in the last like 25 years no other big guy has worked since everybody comes off as a bad Andre rip off. One of the biggest stars in the history of the business, Andre took part in the biggest WrestleMania main event ever when he faced off against Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania III. Hogan bodyslams him in front of 90,000 people and Hulkamania becomes the strongest force in the universe. I don’t have as much interest in Andre as my brother, but I always love the stories Hulk Hogan has of Andre shitting in bathtubs and stuff. To this day he remains one of the most popular figures in the history of the business and it is because of that main event with Hogan that the Hulkster could become the super duper star that would carry wrestling into the mainstream.
6. The Rock
Joe: The jabroni beating, pie eating, trail blazing, eyebrow raising People’s Champion, The Rock has charisma unrivaled by almost everybody. He is mainly a movie star now but in the last year has vowed to be more of a part of the WWE again. While never a terrific in-ring worker, his promos made him the biggest star on the planet other than Steve Austin. His matches with Austin at WrestleMania X-7 and XIX are classics, and his matches with Hogan at X8 and the upcoming bout with Cena at XXVIII are two of the biggest the WWE has ever had. His charisma is unstoppable. All he has to do is raise one eyebrow and everybody goes wild. The crowd’s reaction to his return last year when his music hit was one of the most insane things I’ve ever seen in the WWE. The Rock is so entertaining it is ridiculous and people eat up everything he says. He is one of the three biggest stars in the history of wrestling along with Hogan and Austin and with his crossover popularity he may be the biggest. The fact WWE put his name on the marquee for WrestleMania XXVIII a year in advance and have already said he’ll be a part of next year’s show is proof.
Jimmy: The most successful wrestler besides maybe Hogan, the Rock was a decent worker with through the roof charisma. Probably the most charismatic entertainer in WWF/E history, the man was a walking catchphrase machine. What is unprecedented about the Rock is that for a guy who was a number one draw he was more than willing to do the job for someone else to get them over. He did the most of anyone to get Brock Lesnar over on his way out to become a movie star and made Mick Foley a credible rival for the title. I can’t think of anyone that he didn’t have an interesting feud with, to the point where he even made Hurricane Helms watchable. While the next person on this list really jumpstarted the Attitude Era, the Rock was the one that took it to its zenith and managed to transcend pro wrestling in a way that even the Hulkster couldn’t. While many criticize him for leaving the business, its a testament to just how popular he really was that he could leave the industry and have a career in real movies and not tripe like Mr. Nanny or Santa With Muscles. This weekend he headlines Wrestlemania with John Cena, giving him two of the biggest selling matches in the past decade for the WWE.
That is it for today. The conclusion will most likely come tomorrow.
Wednesday, March 28, 2012
BBB's 25 Greatest Wrestlers of All Time: 15-11
As promised, the next instalment of the wonderful list. Make sure you check out numbers 25-21 and 20-16 as well. Here we go with 15-11:
15. Edge
Jimmy: Edge managed to have one of the most impressive careers of any performer to have spent their entire career in the WWF/E. It is weird to think of him being ahead of Triple H, but it makes sense when you think about it. He has the defining moments from the tag team feuds with the Hardy Boyz and the Dudley Boyz, then managed to rebuild himself from plucky babyface on the cusp of the big time to main event heel as a singles star. Of course, a large part of that was boning Matt Hardy’s girlfriend, but he went with the heat that came out of that and became their strongest heel for a solid five year run. Unlike Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle and Triple H he was the perfect foil for John Cena, since people bought into the villainy of the Rated R Superstar schtick and doled out the heel heat that had been going to babyface Cena. When people look back on his career, he will likely be looked at as the guy who was the most watchable from 2005-2010.
Joe: Much like Tripe H, it seems like Edge almost makes it by default. He doesn’t have the long standing legacy of guys like Terry Funk or Harley Race, but when you look at the success he had in his career it makes sense that he would be here this high. Edge won 31 championships in his career, including a record 12 World Tag Team titles and currently he has the most World Heavyweight title reigns at 7. He is also the only man to win King of the Ring, the Royal Rumble, and Money in the Bank. He took part in the classic TLC matches, and after seeming destined to be nothing more than a bland mid-carder he received a monster push. This was after sleeping with Matt Hardy’s real-life girlfriend Lita and the WWE making it into a storyline. We suddenly saw Edge had a ton of personality, could be relied on as a world champion 11 times, and he went on a run that solidified his spot as one of the WWE’s greatest stars. I’ve been a fan of Edge since I was like 7 and as an Albany boy, I’ve always liked the fact Edge got his name from our old rock radio station and won his first WWE title here. Sadly he also announced his retirement due to spinal stenosis here. Luckily I started watching again in time to see his final match last year.
14. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
Joe: The Rowdy One is probably the second greatest wrestler to never win the WWF/E Championship. Piper is of course best known for his role as the super heel in the mid-80s when he feuded with Hulk Hogan. This was part of the whole Rock & Wrestling thing with Cyndi Lauper that ended up bringing wrestling into the mainstream, led to the MTV special The War to Settle the Score and culminated in a little event called WrestleMania. Piper was the first wrestler to have his own interview segment, Piper’s Pit, which would be ripped off for decades. He worked a classic with Bret Hart at WrestleMania VIII, and his wild charisma has allowed him to make occasional appearances on WWE programming to this day.
Jimmy: The Rowdy One makes it this high nearly solely because of his heel run of 1984-1985. He played a vital role in the WWF’s ability to create Wrestlemania and the Rock ‘N’ Wrestling era. Piper’s Pit was the template for every single pro wrestling interview segment show that came after it and it was host to a plethora of standout moments from the 80s, whether it was smashing a coconut on Jimmy Snuka’s dome to setting up the Hogan-Andre feud. He was the most obnoxious heel on the roster and when you see clips of the build to the first Wrestlemania, it is obvious in retrospect that the main event that nite should have been Hogan-Piper. It’s a shame it never happened in WWF, but took place far later in WCW when they were both way past their primes. He had a decent face run in the late 80s and early 90s culminating in him winning the Intercontinental Title, but he probably could have been their top draw as a heel champ chased by Hogan during the mid 80s since he was that over.
13. Sting
Joe: The greatest and most famous wrestler to never appear in the WWE, Sting is the heart and soul of the old WCW and that legacy has been used to try to gain some notoriety for Total Nonstop Action the last few years. Sting had the look and the charisma, and the rub from Ric Flair, to become a top guy and underwent maybe the greatest career transformation of anybody on this list other than Hogan to stay relevant. Sting ditched the short, blonde hair and bright, vibrant face paint and outfits for long, dark hair, black clothes, and face paint reminiscent of The Crow. He gave up talking for an entire year and would appear with a baseball bat, standing in the rafters. It should have culminated in him absolutely destroying Hulk Hogan and the NWO but WCW bungled it as they did with everything. Now in TNA Sting is billed as “The Icon” and seems to be their big star since he’s the only guy in the main event scene who isn’t a leftover from the WWE.
Jimmy: Not a lot to say about Sting, as I’ve never been a huge fan of his but respect the fact he has been a relevant force in pro wrestling for nearly 30 years. When he was a bland face in the 80s with a unique look, Flair made him (like so many others before and after) look like a worldbeater. In the 90s, he took on the Crow persona (courtesy of Scott Hall) that made him interesting again. He ran with it and if WCW hadn’t been more political than the Beltway, he would have dominated Hogan in 1997 during the height of his feud with the nWo and been the massive face champion that the storyline called for. What is remarkable about Sting is that he is probably the biggest star in pro wrestling to never go to WWF/E. At this point, it isn’t really worth bringing him in unless its for a marquee Wrestlemania match, but there was a period before he went to TNA that a WWE run would have been a big deal. As for the TNA run, I guess the dude tries but that show is a trainwreck.
12. Kurt Angle
Jimmy: Speaking of trainwrecks, Kurt Angle is alternately one of the greatest wrestlers and biggest tragedies in the business. As a worker, Angle is in the top handful all-time. On the mic, he can more than hold his own. His biggest weakness has always been himself - be it from debilitating neck injuries or the copious amounts of drugs and alcohol he consumed to continue to work through these injuries. At some point around 2005/2006, it became clear that his personal issues surpassed his abilities to work matches safely and to me, his run in TNA hasn’t existed. That being said, Angle has taken part in two of the best matches I have ever seen - the 2003 Royal Rumble with Chris Benoit that, along with Chris Jericho’s performance in the Rumble match, saved the show from the abyss and his Wrestlemania 21 match with Shawn Michaels that I think is the best match in both men’s careers. Angle had the ability to vacillate between the goofy comedic face/heel or the intense competitor that was out to destroy and could do this believably every time. That ain’t easy, I can count on maybe one hand the amount of people who could do that and I don’t think any of them could work a match as well as he could in his peak. The only reasons he isn’t ranked higher would be that he was never the number one guy in the company and his Col. Kurtz-like descent is horrifying. That and I ranked Mr. Perfect much higher than my brother ranked Kurt Angle.
Joe: The other guy TNA is very proud of having, 1996 Olympic gold medalist Kurt Angle could have easily been top 10 if tremendous substance abuse problems hadn’t forced him out of the WWE and into a promotion that nobody pays much attention to. His in-ring skill is nearly unrivaled, and his match with Chris Benoit at the 2003 Royal Rumble is one of the greatest of all time. His match with Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 21 can be my pick for the greatest match ever depending on my mood. In 2005 and early 2006 when he was supposed to be a huge heel against John Cena, crowds went wild cheering for him both because of being tired of Cena and the fact Angle was working the best matches and played the insane character so well. But there’s always a darkness that goes with such success. Winning a gold medal with a broken neck has caused problems his whole career, including almost dying against Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania XIX. This led to insane pill addictions and steroid abuse. He jacked up his teeth and rather than take time to fix his mouth he started wearing a mouth guard all the time. He also broke some ribs and was pulling muscles off the bone and trying to work through it since he was so juiced up. Despite this, he put together an incredible career and is the only man other than Edge to hold every active major championship in the WWE.
11. Mr Perfect
Jimmy: I would state unequivocally that Mr. Perfect is the greatest wrestler to never be the World Champion. Dude could do it all - work a high level match, talk better than everyone and just flat out be cooler than everybody. I distinctly remember his vignettes where he performed a slew of sports and did them all perfectly, the towel toss and the gum spit. Mr. Perfect was the first, and possibly only, heel I ever cheered for when I was a little kid. He got Bret Hart over as a singles star and unlike pretty much every wrestler ever, did it willingly. He also got jobbed out of a main event run during the Hogan era and would have been a great foil for the Hulkster. When Ric Flair came to the WWF, Perfect served as his manager and excelled at that as well, then when he stopped for a while due to injuries was an amazing color commentator for RAW. Dude was just a natural when it came to the business and despite never reaching the top status, I ranked him 7th in my list and Joe had him at 14.
Joe: Curt Hennig is the greatest wrestler never to be WWF Champion. The fact that they never put the WWF title on him is one of the biggest crimes in the history of the wrestling business. Since Hulk Hogan had the stranglehold on the top spot, his feud with Hennig in the late 80s was handled terribly and what could have been an epic storyline culminating in a match at WrestleMania VI where Hogan wins back the title has just become a sad “what if?”. The clip of Perfect destroying Hogan’s championship with a hammer on Saturday Night’s Main Event as The Genius celebrates should have been a turning point in WWF history that would lead to Perfect being the ultimate heel champion. That feud could have been so much more. There were few guys better in the ring, on the mic, or even on commentary than Mr. Perfect.
So we’ve reached the end of yet another part. Come back tomorrow for our journey into the first half of the top ten.
15. Edge
Jimmy: Edge managed to have one of the most impressive careers of any performer to have spent their entire career in the WWF/E. It is weird to think of him being ahead of Triple H, but it makes sense when you think about it. He has the defining moments from the tag team feuds with the Hardy Boyz and the Dudley Boyz, then managed to rebuild himself from plucky babyface on the cusp of the big time to main event heel as a singles star. Of course, a large part of that was boning Matt Hardy’s girlfriend, but he went with the heat that came out of that and became their strongest heel for a solid five year run. Unlike Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle and Triple H he was the perfect foil for John Cena, since people bought into the villainy of the Rated R Superstar schtick and doled out the heel heat that had been going to babyface Cena. When people look back on his career, he will likely be looked at as the guy who was the most watchable from 2005-2010.
Joe: Much like Tripe H, it seems like Edge almost makes it by default. He doesn’t have the long standing legacy of guys like Terry Funk or Harley Race, but when you look at the success he had in his career it makes sense that he would be here this high. Edge won 31 championships in his career, including a record 12 World Tag Team titles and currently he has the most World Heavyweight title reigns at 7. He is also the only man to win King of the Ring, the Royal Rumble, and Money in the Bank. He took part in the classic TLC matches, and after seeming destined to be nothing more than a bland mid-carder he received a monster push. This was after sleeping with Matt Hardy’s real-life girlfriend Lita and the WWE making it into a storyline. We suddenly saw Edge had a ton of personality, could be relied on as a world champion 11 times, and he went on a run that solidified his spot as one of the WWE’s greatest stars. I’ve been a fan of Edge since I was like 7 and as an Albany boy, I’ve always liked the fact Edge got his name from our old rock radio station and won his first WWE title here. Sadly he also announced his retirement due to spinal stenosis here. Luckily I started watching again in time to see his final match last year.
14. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
Joe: The Rowdy One is probably the second greatest wrestler to never win the WWF/E Championship. Piper is of course best known for his role as the super heel in the mid-80s when he feuded with Hulk Hogan. This was part of the whole Rock & Wrestling thing with Cyndi Lauper that ended up bringing wrestling into the mainstream, led to the MTV special The War to Settle the Score and culminated in a little event called WrestleMania. Piper was the first wrestler to have his own interview segment, Piper’s Pit, which would be ripped off for decades. He worked a classic with Bret Hart at WrestleMania VIII, and his wild charisma has allowed him to make occasional appearances on WWE programming to this day.
Jimmy: The Rowdy One makes it this high nearly solely because of his heel run of 1984-1985. He played a vital role in the WWF’s ability to create Wrestlemania and the Rock ‘N’ Wrestling era. Piper’s Pit was the template for every single pro wrestling interview segment show that came after it and it was host to a plethora of standout moments from the 80s, whether it was smashing a coconut on Jimmy Snuka’s dome to setting up the Hogan-Andre feud. He was the most obnoxious heel on the roster and when you see clips of the build to the first Wrestlemania, it is obvious in retrospect that the main event that nite should have been Hogan-Piper. It’s a shame it never happened in WWF, but took place far later in WCW when they were both way past their primes. He had a decent face run in the late 80s and early 90s culminating in him winning the Intercontinental Title, but he probably could have been their top draw as a heel champ chased by Hogan during the mid 80s since he was that over.
13. Sting
Joe: The greatest and most famous wrestler to never appear in the WWE, Sting is the heart and soul of the old WCW and that legacy has been used to try to gain some notoriety for Total Nonstop Action the last few years. Sting had the look and the charisma, and the rub from Ric Flair, to become a top guy and underwent maybe the greatest career transformation of anybody on this list other than Hogan to stay relevant. Sting ditched the short, blonde hair and bright, vibrant face paint and outfits for long, dark hair, black clothes, and face paint reminiscent of The Crow. He gave up talking for an entire year and would appear with a baseball bat, standing in the rafters. It should have culminated in him absolutely destroying Hulk Hogan and the NWO but WCW bungled it as they did with everything. Now in TNA Sting is billed as “The Icon” and seems to be their big star since he’s the only guy in the main event scene who isn’t a leftover from the WWE.
Jimmy: Not a lot to say about Sting, as I’ve never been a huge fan of his but respect the fact he has been a relevant force in pro wrestling for nearly 30 years. When he was a bland face in the 80s with a unique look, Flair made him (like so many others before and after) look like a worldbeater. In the 90s, he took on the Crow persona (courtesy of Scott Hall) that made him interesting again. He ran with it and if WCW hadn’t been more political than the Beltway, he would have dominated Hogan in 1997 during the height of his feud with the nWo and been the massive face champion that the storyline called for. What is remarkable about Sting is that he is probably the biggest star in pro wrestling to never go to WWF/E. At this point, it isn’t really worth bringing him in unless its for a marquee Wrestlemania match, but there was a period before he went to TNA that a WWE run would have been a big deal. As for the TNA run, I guess the dude tries but that show is a trainwreck.
12. Kurt Angle
Jimmy: Speaking of trainwrecks, Kurt Angle is alternately one of the greatest wrestlers and biggest tragedies in the business. As a worker, Angle is in the top handful all-time. On the mic, he can more than hold his own. His biggest weakness has always been himself - be it from debilitating neck injuries or the copious amounts of drugs and alcohol he consumed to continue to work through these injuries. At some point around 2005/2006, it became clear that his personal issues surpassed his abilities to work matches safely and to me, his run in TNA hasn’t existed. That being said, Angle has taken part in two of the best matches I have ever seen - the 2003 Royal Rumble with Chris Benoit that, along with Chris Jericho’s performance in the Rumble match, saved the show from the abyss and his Wrestlemania 21 match with Shawn Michaels that I think is the best match in both men’s careers. Angle had the ability to vacillate between the goofy comedic face/heel or the intense competitor that was out to destroy and could do this believably every time. That ain’t easy, I can count on maybe one hand the amount of people who could do that and I don’t think any of them could work a match as well as he could in his peak. The only reasons he isn’t ranked higher would be that he was never the number one guy in the company and his Col. Kurtz-like descent is horrifying. That and I ranked Mr. Perfect much higher than my brother ranked Kurt Angle.
Joe: The other guy TNA is very proud of having, 1996 Olympic gold medalist Kurt Angle could have easily been top 10 if tremendous substance abuse problems hadn’t forced him out of the WWE and into a promotion that nobody pays much attention to. His in-ring skill is nearly unrivaled, and his match with Chris Benoit at the 2003 Royal Rumble is one of the greatest of all time. His match with Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 21 can be my pick for the greatest match ever depending on my mood. In 2005 and early 2006 when he was supposed to be a huge heel against John Cena, crowds went wild cheering for him both because of being tired of Cena and the fact Angle was working the best matches and played the insane character so well. But there’s always a darkness that goes with such success. Winning a gold medal with a broken neck has caused problems his whole career, including almost dying against Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania XIX. This led to insane pill addictions and steroid abuse. He jacked up his teeth and rather than take time to fix his mouth he started wearing a mouth guard all the time. He also broke some ribs and was pulling muscles off the bone and trying to work through it since he was so juiced up. Despite this, he put together an incredible career and is the only man other than Edge to hold every active major championship in the WWE.
11. Mr Perfect
Jimmy: I would state unequivocally that Mr. Perfect is the greatest wrestler to never be the World Champion. Dude could do it all - work a high level match, talk better than everyone and just flat out be cooler than everybody. I distinctly remember his vignettes where he performed a slew of sports and did them all perfectly, the towel toss and the gum spit. Mr. Perfect was the first, and possibly only, heel I ever cheered for when I was a little kid. He got Bret Hart over as a singles star and unlike pretty much every wrestler ever, did it willingly. He also got jobbed out of a main event run during the Hogan era and would have been a great foil for the Hulkster. When Ric Flair came to the WWF, Perfect served as his manager and excelled at that as well, then when he stopped for a while due to injuries was an amazing color commentator for RAW. Dude was just a natural when it came to the business and despite never reaching the top status, I ranked him 7th in my list and Joe had him at 14.
Joe: Curt Hennig is the greatest wrestler never to be WWF Champion. The fact that they never put the WWF title on him is one of the biggest crimes in the history of the wrestling business. Since Hulk Hogan had the stranglehold on the top spot, his feud with Hennig in the late 80s was handled terribly and what could have been an epic storyline culminating in a match at WrestleMania VI where Hogan wins back the title has just become a sad “what if?”. The clip of Perfect destroying Hogan’s championship with a hammer on Saturday Night’s Main Event as The Genius celebrates should have been a turning point in WWF history that would lead to Perfect being the ultimate heel champion. That feud could have been so much more. There were few guys better in the ring, on the mic, or even on commentary than Mr. Perfect.
So we’ve reached the end of yet another part. Come back tomorrow for our journey into the first half of the top ten.
Tuesday, March 27, 2012
BBB's Greatest Wrestlers of All Time: 20-16
So here we are with a continuation of the fantastic greatest wrestlers list. If you missed numbers 25-21 you can see that here. Here are numbers 20-16:
20. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat
Joe: One of the greatest performers in the history of the business, Steamboat’s legacy is weakened by just two things: he was incapable of being a heel, and his ability to cut promos was lacking. In the ring however, there have been few athletes as great as the Dragon. At WrestleMania III in 1987 Steamboat worked one of the all-time great matches with Randy Savage, and two years later in WCW had an epic feud with Ric Flar that gave way to several amazing matches, including the 2-out-of-3 falls match in which Steamboat drops 15 straight elbows to Flair’s knee. At WrestleMania XXV he looked impressive in a gauntlet match against Chris Jericho and the two had a match at the next pay per view because of it.
Jimmy: I remember him from when he had to dress as a Gila monster in the early 1990s and had a run in the midcard of the WWF, but during the 80s he was probably the best worker in the business. Probably coulda made a great run at the top of the card if he had a modicum of personality, but his feud and series of matches with Flair are legendary regardless.
19. Jake “The Snake” Roberts
Jimmy: Set the template for basically every sinister/cool heel to come after him - there is no Raven or Steve Austin without him. He also popularized the DDT, the finishing move for every wrestler in ECW history. His promos were the best and were far more complex than anything anyone else was doing at the time and if it hadn’t been the 80s, he could have main evented regularly.
Joe: Jake was one of the most over superstars in the entire WWF during that late 80s/early 90s period. Jake is yet another guy who wasn’t able to be WWF Champion because of Hogan. Snake Man’s career can be be summed up with one anecdote: On Jake’s interview segment, The Snake Pit, he was supposed to start a feud with Hulk Hogan. He gave Hogan the DDT and the plan was for the crowd to cheer for the Hulkster to rise and whoop Jake’s ass, but the crowd started chanting “DDT! DDT! DDT!” Jake, being the brilliant wrestling mind he was, knew immediately they had to back away from the angle. Hogan of course covers his ass and says he told Vince they just didn't have the chemistry in the ring, but really everybody knew Jake was the man.
18. Triple H
Jimmy: He kind of makes it this high by default for having such a long, successful career despite never being the best worker or best talker or most charismatic performer at any moment during his long run at the top of the card. The amount of time he spent at the top is a testament to both his hard work and backstage politicking prowess. I can’t think of him having any legendary, career defining feuds or promos that set him apart from other people or weren’t due in large part to Mick Foley killing himself to get him over, but he has always been dependable and can be counted on to run with the title and not fuck it up.
Joe: Aitches makes it by default since he’s been World Champion 13 times. While he is one of my favorites, I will remember HHH more as the guy who used his relationship with the boss’s daughter to hold people down rather than as a great worker. Trips can hold his own with good people though. He has had Motorhead record three manly theme songs for him, making him the man in my book. His triple threat match against Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit at WrestleMania XX is often talked about as being the greatest triple threat match of all time, with Trips actually doing the job and making Benoit look good. Sadly, WWE will overrate his work since he’s the heir to Vince McMahon’s throne.
17. “Superstar” Billy Graham
Joe: The image of the jacked, blonde, super charismatic star emerged with Billy Graham in the 70s. Guys like Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner, Jesse Ventura, and Triple H would never exist without the Superstar. The whole referring to the arms as “pythons” that Hulk Hogan did came from Billy Graham. Superstar was a bad guy but people loved him, something that - as his WWE DVD title points out - was 20 years too soon. Steroid abuse has destroyed his body, leaving him with numerous hip and ankle replacements, and he is currently dying of Hepatitis C-. He was a star at a time when the world wasn’t ready for a character like his and he sold out Madison Square Garden as a headliner 19 of 20 times. He paved the way for Hulkamania and ultimately the growth of the business.
Jimmy: The man of the hour, the man with the power, too sweet to be sour Superstar Billy Graham was the heel template from the 1970s that was used to make Hulkamania happen. He had the look, swagger and charisma. He wasn’t a great worker, but he could cut a mean promo and he set the example for how a wrestling star was expected to look. There is no Hogan, Scott Steiner, Triple H, Lex Luger or a lot of others without him. If his run wasn’t so short and he didn’t ruin himself on roids and drugs, he could have been top 5 in the history of the sport.
16. Terry Funk
Jimmy: Terry Funk has been an instrumental force over like 5 decades in pro wrestling, from a grappling based pro in the 70s and 80s to a hardcore legend in ECW from the 90s to his status today as an icon. The Funker had a great feud with Flair in NWA and his bloodsoaked displays of brutality with Mick Foley are gruesome by any standard of measurement. His promos were great and his ability to entertain even as he has turned into an elderly cripple are to be commended.
Joe: The Funker has had a strange career. He was a terrific wrestler for years and years, working great matches with guys like Ric Flair. Their “I Quit” match is a classic As he got older, he changed it up from regular wrestling to brutal, hardcore wrestling. He did amazing work in ECW, winning their world championship on their first pay per view. He also worked one of the most grotesque matches in history in a barbed wire rope match with Sabu. While in Japan, he fought Mick Foley in an exploding ring, C4 explosive, barbed wire match as well. In 2006 Funk and Foley reprised their feud to build up the ECW One Night Stand pay per view and it was easily the best thing in wrestling that year.
That’s it for now. Tomorrow there hopefully will be another instalment.
20. Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat
Joe: One of the greatest performers in the history of the business, Steamboat’s legacy is weakened by just two things: he was incapable of being a heel, and his ability to cut promos was lacking. In the ring however, there have been few athletes as great as the Dragon. At WrestleMania III in 1987 Steamboat worked one of the all-time great matches with Randy Savage, and two years later in WCW had an epic feud with Ric Flar that gave way to several amazing matches, including the 2-out-of-3 falls match in which Steamboat drops 15 straight elbows to Flair’s knee. At WrestleMania XXV he looked impressive in a gauntlet match against Chris Jericho and the two had a match at the next pay per view because of it.
Jimmy: I remember him from when he had to dress as a Gila monster in the early 1990s and had a run in the midcard of the WWF, but during the 80s he was probably the best worker in the business. Probably coulda made a great run at the top of the card if he had a modicum of personality, but his feud and series of matches with Flair are legendary regardless.
19. Jake “The Snake” Roberts
Jimmy: Set the template for basically every sinister/cool heel to come after him - there is no Raven or Steve Austin without him. He also popularized the DDT, the finishing move for every wrestler in ECW history. His promos were the best and were far more complex than anything anyone else was doing at the time and if it hadn’t been the 80s, he could have main evented regularly.
Joe: Jake was one of the most over superstars in the entire WWF during that late 80s/early 90s period. Jake is yet another guy who wasn’t able to be WWF Champion because of Hogan. Snake Man’s career can be be summed up with one anecdote: On Jake’s interview segment, The Snake Pit, he was supposed to start a feud with Hulk Hogan. He gave Hogan the DDT and the plan was for the crowd to cheer for the Hulkster to rise and whoop Jake’s ass, but the crowd started chanting “DDT! DDT! DDT!” Jake, being the brilliant wrestling mind he was, knew immediately they had to back away from the angle. Hogan of course covers his ass and says he told Vince they just didn't have the chemistry in the ring, but really everybody knew Jake was the man.
18. Triple H
Jimmy: He kind of makes it this high by default for having such a long, successful career despite never being the best worker or best talker or most charismatic performer at any moment during his long run at the top of the card. The amount of time he spent at the top is a testament to both his hard work and backstage politicking prowess. I can’t think of him having any legendary, career defining feuds or promos that set him apart from other people or weren’t due in large part to Mick Foley killing himself to get him over, but he has always been dependable and can be counted on to run with the title and not fuck it up.
Joe: Aitches makes it by default since he’s been World Champion 13 times. While he is one of my favorites, I will remember HHH more as the guy who used his relationship with the boss’s daughter to hold people down rather than as a great worker. Trips can hold his own with good people though. He has had Motorhead record three manly theme songs for him, making him the man in my book. His triple threat match against Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit at WrestleMania XX is often talked about as being the greatest triple threat match of all time, with Trips actually doing the job and making Benoit look good. Sadly, WWE will overrate his work since he’s the heir to Vince McMahon’s throne.
17. “Superstar” Billy Graham
Joe: The image of the jacked, blonde, super charismatic star emerged with Billy Graham in the 70s. Guys like Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner, Jesse Ventura, and Triple H would never exist without the Superstar. The whole referring to the arms as “pythons” that Hulk Hogan did came from Billy Graham. Superstar was a bad guy but people loved him, something that - as his WWE DVD title points out - was 20 years too soon. Steroid abuse has destroyed his body, leaving him with numerous hip and ankle replacements, and he is currently dying of Hepatitis C-. He was a star at a time when the world wasn’t ready for a character like his and he sold out Madison Square Garden as a headliner 19 of 20 times. He paved the way for Hulkamania and ultimately the growth of the business.
Jimmy: The man of the hour, the man with the power, too sweet to be sour Superstar Billy Graham was the heel template from the 1970s that was used to make Hulkamania happen. He had the look, swagger and charisma. He wasn’t a great worker, but he could cut a mean promo and he set the example for how a wrestling star was expected to look. There is no Hogan, Scott Steiner, Triple H, Lex Luger or a lot of others without him. If his run wasn’t so short and he didn’t ruin himself on roids and drugs, he could have been top 5 in the history of the sport.
16. Terry Funk
Jimmy: Terry Funk has been an instrumental force over like 5 decades in pro wrestling, from a grappling based pro in the 70s and 80s to a hardcore legend in ECW from the 90s to his status today as an icon. The Funker had a great feud with Flair in NWA and his bloodsoaked displays of brutality with Mick Foley are gruesome by any standard of measurement. His promos were great and his ability to entertain even as he has turned into an elderly cripple are to be commended.
Joe: The Funker has had a strange career. He was a terrific wrestler for years and years, working great matches with guys like Ric Flair. Their “I Quit” match is a classic As he got older, he changed it up from regular wrestling to brutal, hardcore wrestling. He did amazing work in ECW, winning their world championship on their first pay per view. He also worked one of the most grotesque matches in history in a barbed wire rope match with Sabu. While in Japan, he fought Mick Foley in an exploding ring, C4 explosive, barbed wire match as well. In 2006 Funk and Foley reprised their feud to build up the ECW One Night Stand pay per view and it was easily the best thing in wrestling that year.
That’s it for now. Tomorrow there hopefully will be another instalment.
Monday, March 26, 2012
BBB's 25 Greatest Wrestlers of All Time: 25-21
WrestleMania XXVIII is this Sunday so to celebrate we here at Black Belt Basketball have compiled a little list of the greatest wrestlers of all time. I know for me this has been one of the most fun posts to write since it takes me back. I’m assuming my brother also was down otherwise he wouldn’t have contributed. Before we get into the first bit of the top 25, here are some guys who aren’t on the list for whatever reason but still deserve some kind of props:
And of course there are two guys worth mentioning since they aren’t on this list since we counted them as part of the new era of guys and didn't want to include anybody currently working unless they had built up a legacy we deemed acceptable:
So with that out of the way, I present to you numbers 25-21 of the Greatest Wrestlers of All Time:
25. “Ravishing” Rick Rude
Joe: One of the all time greats on the microphone, Rick Rude is the first of many stars from the old WWF that deserved to be WWF Champion due to his great promo and in-ring work, but never got past the Intercontinental title due to Hulk Hogan’s strangehold on the top spot. His cage match with “Rowdy” Roddy Piper that appeared on the old Coliseum WWF Superstars video tape is the first match I remember seeing and is forever a favorite. His wrestling career was cut short due to a back injury but his overwhelming charisma allowed him to stay on TV as a manager for several more years until he died from heart failure in 1999.
Jimmy: The Ravishing One was part of the great old school WWF cadre of mid-upper card heels that could have made a believable champ if Hogan hadn’t buried everyone. He made the Ultimate Warrior a credible star and had a brilliant feud with Jake Roberts that turned the Snake into a babyface. More importantly, Rude was awesome and fun to watch. He was ridiculously ripped, cut great promos and had the coolest tights (and mustache). He was also a part of my favorite cage match ever against Roddy Piper at some point in the 80s. If you could bring him back from the 80s and use him now, he would be in the main event of 90% of WWE pay per views. A total legend.
24. Dusty Rhodes
Joe: The American Dream baby! Big Dust is probably best known for having a feud in the 80s with Ric Flair that has gone down as one of the all time greats, including the segment in which the Four Horsemen jumped Rhodes and smashed his arm. The fans loved Dusty because of his charisma and the fact that his gimmick was that he was the everyman. He is one of the most charismatic performers in the history of the business and was one of the biggest stars of his generation.
Jimmy: The American Dream was part of one of the most memorable feuds ever with Ric Flair and the Four Horseman back in the old NWA days and before that had an entertaining run in the old WWWF against Billy Graham. His “Son of a Plumber” promos, amongst others, were highly entertaining and he even managed to get over in that absurd polka dot outfit Vince McMahon made him wear to humiliate him when he came to the WWF in the late 80s. The fact that he could look like a slob and still be a believable main eventer is a credit to his charisma (and the work rate of his opponents).
23. Mick Foley
Jimmy: The Hardcore Legend is a personal favorite of mine, even if he should have stopped wrestling a decade ago. His run as Cactus Jack in ECW was brilliant and violent. He cut some of the greatest promos in the sport and his matches with Sabu and Terry Funk were absolute bloodbaths. His Hell in a Cell match with the Undertaker provided two of the most unforgettable moments in WWF/E history and his 2000 feud with Triple H helped make “the Game” a believable badass. If he hadn’t served as a glorified jobber and recycled all his great promos and storylines over the past decade, he could have been higher.
Joe: The greatest hardcore wrestler of all time, Foley worked for all three major promotions: the WWF/E, WCW, and ECW. Though he is most well-known for his time in the WWE as Mankind and nearly dying in the Hell in the Cell match with Undertaker, his best days came as Cactus Jack in ECW. He is an underrated worker who has made stars of numerous people for the WWE. He made Triple H into a badass, helped Randy Orton shed his pretty boy image and become a legitimate main eventer, and helped Edge on his rise to becoming the best heel in the business in 2006. Foley had no ego about making somebody into a star and that is every bit as important to his greatness as the classic matches.
22. Harley Race
Jimmy: One of the all-time greats in the NWA. He also had a memorable feud with Ric Flair and was the inspiration behind Triple H’s mustache and feud with Goldberg in 2003. Harley was a pretty badass dude and if WWF wasn’t so kid friendly in the 80s, should have had a manly feud with Hogan. Instead, he beat on Junkyard Dog and was “the King” before Jerry Lawler had that title in WWF. I’m not as up on his history as I am with most of the others on this list, so I’m going to have to keep it pretty short.
Joe: Another one of the old school legends, Race is one of the most important wrestlers from the old NWA days. I haven’t seen much of his work, but his feud with Ric Flair in the 80s was monumental as it gave way to the first Starrcade, what would become the NWA and later WCW’s flagship event. Race was a legit badass who tried to fight Hulk Hogan for real and he even ripped Ricky Steamboat’s face to shreds with sandpaper to make a beating from Ric Flair look legit.
21. “The Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase
Joe: DiBiase had perhaps the greatest theme music ever. Like Rick Rude, DiBiase suffered because of backstage politics played by Hulk Hogan and was never WWF Champion. As a consolation prize he was given the incredibly awesome looking Million Dollar Championship, but that belt was essentially meaningless. He was the perfect main event heel but never got a chance to showcase it, not even winning the Intercontinental title.
Jimmy: Another 80s heel from the WWF that would have been a god today. Think JBL but could actually work a match. The Million Dollar Man gimmick was awesome and he made it work better than anyone could have. He matched it by being a great worker as well as a great talker. He was part of the biggest feud in WWF by paying Andre the Giant to give him the title, which led to a battle with Hulk Hogan. This segued into Wrestlemania IV and Randy Savage becoming the WWF Champion and eventually having an epic rivalry with Hulk Hogan. In a more fair business, DiBiaise would have had a brief run with the title as a reward for how great he was.
That is it for now. Check back throughout the week for the rest of them.
- Chris Benoit - Until June 24, 2007 I’m sure Jimmy and I both would have put Benoit near the top of the list. He was an unreal worker who regularly put on matches that were among the best you’d ever seen. The moment when he finally won the World Heavyweight Championship at WrestleMania XX was one of the greatest moments in the history of the business and his celebration with Eddie Guerrero was amazing. But then Benoit developed dementia from years of repeated blows to the head and on that day in 2007 he killed himself after murdering his wife and son. That changes everything and has made it uncomfortable to even think about him for five years now.
- Eddie Guerrero - So charismatic, so funny, such a great worker. Eddie overcame drug and alcohol issues to finally become WWE Champion and was in the best stretch of his entire career when he died suddenly of a heart attack at the end of 2005. It was such a tragedy.
- Ultimate Warrior - Not a good worker, but he was one of the biggest stars in the old school WWF. He at least deserves a little credit for his career.
And of course there are two guys worth mentioning since they aren’t on this list since we counted them as part of the new era of guys and didn't want to include anybody currently working unless they had built up a legacy we deemed acceptable:
- John Cena - WWE’s cash cow since 2005. Just like Hogan, Stone Cold, and The Rock before him, Cena is the big star relied on to carry everything. He is a mediocre wrestler with great charisma and has become one of the most important guys in WWE history. He also worked a match I believe to be one of the five greatest ever with the next guy here....
- CM Punk - The self-proclaimed “Best in the World” and current WWE Champion. Amazing on the mic, amazing in the ring, the Straight Edge Superstar single handedly made the WWE cool again last summer with an epic series of promos and a feud with John Cena.
So with that out of the way, I present to you numbers 25-21 of the Greatest Wrestlers of All Time:
25. “Ravishing” Rick Rude
Joe: One of the all time greats on the microphone, Rick Rude is the first of many stars from the old WWF that deserved to be WWF Champion due to his great promo and in-ring work, but never got past the Intercontinental title due to Hulk Hogan’s strangehold on the top spot. His cage match with “Rowdy” Roddy Piper that appeared on the old Coliseum WWF Superstars video tape is the first match I remember seeing and is forever a favorite. His wrestling career was cut short due to a back injury but his overwhelming charisma allowed him to stay on TV as a manager for several more years until he died from heart failure in 1999.
Jimmy: The Ravishing One was part of the great old school WWF cadre of mid-upper card heels that could have made a believable champ if Hogan hadn’t buried everyone. He made the Ultimate Warrior a credible star and had a brilliant feud with Jake Roberts that turned the Snake into a babyface. More importantly, Rude was awesome and fun to watch. He was ridiculously ripped, cut great promos and had the coolest tights (and mustache). He was also a part of my favorite cage match ever against Roddy Piper at some point in the 80s. If you could bring him back from the 80s and use him now, he would be in the main event of 90% of WWE pay per views. A total legend.
24. Dusty Rhodes
Joe: The American Dream baby! Big Dust is probably best known for having a feud in the 80s with Ric Flair that has gone down as one of the all time greats, including the segment in which the Four Horsemen jumped Rhodes and smashed his arm. The fans loved Dusty because of his charisma and the fact that his gimmick was that he was the everyman. He is one of the most charismatic performers in the history of the business and was one of the biggest stars of his generation.
Jimmy: The American Dream was part of one of the most memorable feuds ever with Ric Flair and the Four Horseman back in the old NWA days and before that had an entertaining run in the old WWWF against Billy Graham. His “Son of a Plumber” promos, amongst others, were highly entertaining and he even managed to get over in that absurd polka dot outfit Vince McMahon made him wear to humiliate him when he came to the WWF in the late 80s. The fact that he could look like a slob and still be a believable main eventer is a credit to his charisma (and the work rate of his opponents).
23. Mick Foley
Jimmy: The Hardcore Legend is a personal favorite of mine, even if he should have stopped wrestling a decade ago. His run as Cactus Jack in ECW was brilliant and violent. He cut some of the greatest promos in the sport and his matches with Sabu and Terry Funk were absolute bloodbaths. His Hell in a Cell match with the Undertaker provided two of the most unforgettable moments in WWF/E history and his 2000 feud with Triple H helped make “the Game” a believable badass. If he hadn’t served as a glorified jobber and recycled all his great promos and storylines over the past decade, he could have been higher.
Joe: The greatest hardcore wrestler of all time, Foley worked for all three major promotions: the WWF/E, WCW, and ECW. Though he is most well-known for his time in the WWE as Mankind and nearly dying in the Hell in the Cell match with Undertaker, his best days came as Cactus Jack in ECW. He is an underrated worker who has made stars of numerous people for the WWE. He made Triple H into a badass, helped Randy Orton shed his pretty boy image and become a legitimate main eventer, and helped Edge on his rise to becoming the best heel in the business in 2006. Foley had no ego about making somebody into a star and that is every bit as important to his greatness as the classic matches.
22. Harley Race
Jimmy: One of the all-time greats in the NWA. He also had a memorable feud with Ric Flair and was the inspiration behind Triple H’s mustache and feud with Goldberg in 2003. Harley was a pretty badass dude and if WWF wasn’t so kid friendly in the 80s, should have had a manly feud with Hogan. Instead, he beat on Junkyard Dog and was “the King” before Jerry Lawler had that title in WWF. I’m not as up on his history as I am with most of the others on this list, so I’m going to have to keep it pretty short.
Joe: Another one of the old school legends, Race is one of the most important wrestlers from the old NWA days. I haven’t seen much of his work, but his feud with Ric Flair in the 80s was monumental as it gave way to the first Starrcade, what would become the NWA and later WCW’s flagship event. Race was a legit badass who tried to fight Hulk Hogan for real and he even ripped Ricky Steamboat’s face to shreds with sandpaper to make a beating from Ric Flair look legit.
21. “The Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase
Joe: DiBiase had perhaps the greatest theme music ever. Like Rick Rude, DiBiase suffered because of backstage politics played by Hulk Hogan and was never WWF Champion. As a consolation prize he was given the incredibly awesome looking Million Dollar Championship, but that belt was essentially meaningless. He was the perfect main event heel but never got a chance to showcase it, not even winning the Intercontinental title.
Jimmy: Another 80s heel from the WWF that would have been a god today. Think JBL but could actually work a match. The Million Dollar Man gimmick was awesome and he made it work better than anyone could have. He matched it by being a great worker as well as a great talker. He was part of the biggest feud in WWF by paying Andre the Giant to give him the title, which led to a battle with Hulk Hogan. This segued into Wrestlemania IV and Randy Savage becoming the WWF Champion and eventually having an epic rivalry with Hulk Hogan. In a more fair business, DiBiaise would have had a brief run with the title as a reward for how great he was.
That is it for now. Check back throughout the week for the rest of them.
Thursday, March 22, 2012
Tim Duncan: The NBA's Greatest and Most Underappreciated Post-Jordan Talent
The history of basketball can easily be broken down into eras based on the best player. There was the Bird-Magic era in the 80s, which gave way to the Jordan era of the 90s. Currently we live in what tentatively can be called the LeBron era since he is probably the greatest natural athlete to ever play the game. This started in 2008 when he pushed the Celtics to Game 7 and then won back-to-back MVPs in 09 and 10, and is poised to win his third this year. Even without a ring he is still the best regular season player. Of course if he doesn’t win a ring we have to rethink the last few years since how can you really be the lord and master of the league if you can’t climb the mountain? Should the Bulls or Thunder start winning rings this changes everything.
But still, between Jordan’s retirement in 98 and LeBron’s coming of age in 2008, we have a ten year gap that people will define differently. If you ask most people who the greatest basketball player was in that era after Jordan beats Utah and before LeBron starts having historic regular seasons and winning MVPs, they will say Kobe Bryant. Some might say Shaq since he swung the balance of power in the NBA after winning three titles in LA then making the Heat a championship team. Some may even say Allen Iverson was the guy in the first few years of that decade, but really there was one guy from the start of the 98-99 season all the way to the 2007 NBA Finals.
Kobe may have won the fan voting for the NBA’s Player of the Decade Award in 2010, but Kobe has quit in playoff games, thrown tantrums that forced teammates out of LA, and has missed the playoffs. Shaq got fat and his quality of play dropped drastically by the second half of that decade. Meanwhile Tim Duncan was the model of consistency, but he was lacking the flash and ego of guys like Kobe and Shaq and never got the attention he deserved. He has won all four series he’s played in the NBA Finals, making the Spurs the only franchise other than Jordan’s Chicago Bulls to win multiple titles with no defeats. In the history of the NBA only two teams can claim multiple trips to the Finals and leaving with the championship every time. Stunning.
Tim Duncan is maybe the most unexciting superstar in the history of basketball. Watch his top ten highlights on Youtube. They are not electrifying in the slightest. The Onion has a slew of hilarious stories about Duncan in situations where he hams it up by arching his eyebrow slightly, gives a speech on fiscal responsibility, give a three hour pep talk, and forwards an article on a particle accelerator to his teammates. They are weird stories and of course fake, but so little is known about Duncan you could easily believe any of these being true.
In Bill Simmons’ The Book of Basketballl, really it is just the NBA Bible, Simmons gives the quintessential account on Duncan’s career. Anything said here is owed majorly to Simmons for his work since I wasn’t following the league close enough in the first years of Duncan’s dominance to know what was what. Simmons wrote a text book on the NBA and classes should be taught on it. Anything you ever need to know about the game is summed up there, and his section on Tim Duncan is one of the most important parts.
Tim Duncan has never cared about personal glory or statistics. He’s always just wanted to get everybody involved, play good defense, and win. Whatever the Spurs need he does if it means they can win. Scoring, rebounding, defense, you name it he does it. When the Spurs needed a big three to force another overtime against the Suns in the Playoffs, the guy who hadn't even hit a three all season steps up and drills it to effectively end the Phoenix Suns.
His nickname is The Big Fundamental, the perfect fit for a player who goes out and plays perfectly. That jab step or post up followed by a bank jumper is one of the most unstoppable and devastating moves in the history of the league. He’s never had the flash or flare of other players from his generation so he never got the credit. Hell, if Kevin Garnett had won a ring or two on the Timberwolves who knows how much people would even bother remembering Duncan’s consistency?
And that is what makes Duncan so amazing. The man is consistent. His career averages of 20 points, 11 boards, 3 assists, and 2 blocks are pretty awesome and when you look at the career stats you see he only failed to average 20 points once in his first 10 years. The numbers have taken a dip lately as he’s getting older and now but he’s still putting up 14.7 points and 8.9 boards, with 2.5 assists. Part of it is age, and part of it is Coach Gregg Popovich saving Duncan up for the playoffs. Either way he still puts in effective minutes like his 21-13 game on Orlando just a week ago then his epic 16-19 with 5 blocks against the Thunder two nights later. Both games were wins. He had 19-17 with 5 blocks in a win against Memphis last month, preceeded by 13-15 against the Thunder. Last night he gave the Timberwolves 21 and 15 in yet another win. People don’t remember Duncan blowing up a stat line like LeBron James, but he gets big numbers and big wins.
In Duncan’s previous 14 seasons, the Spurs failed to win 50 games only one: the lockout-shortened 1998-99 season in which there was only 50 games. Every year he has played, the Spurs have been in the Playoffs. That’s coming up on 15 years straight now, a streak no other team in the league is close to right now. They have made the playoffs as a 5 seed once, and that was in Duncan’s rookie season in 1998, and as a 7 seed in 2010. Other than that there was 5 appearances at the 1 seed, 2 as the second seed, 4 as the third, and just one as the fourth seed. In a footnote from Simmons’ book, he points out that, “From 1997 to 2008, San Antonio finished 615-265 with him during the regular season, 91-57 in the playoffs, won four titles, and finished 4-0 in the Finals. Now that’s consistency.”
Currently the Spurs are the 2 seed in the West thanks to an unholy, MVP-level year from Tony Parker, but Duncan has aged with grace and taken on a supporting role perfectly and can still take over when he needs to, especially since Manu Ginobili has not been effective this year. But people don’t pay attention because, as Simmons points out, people are bothered that Duncan is so consistent. As Simmons says, “If you keep banging out first-class seasons with none standing out more than any other, who’s going to notice after a while?” It is the truth.
Duncan has back-to-back MVP wins in 2002-3, with his 2003 win being the last time somebody won MVP and an NBA Championship in the same season. As stated before the Spurs are the one of only two teams to win multiple NBA titles without ever losing a Finals series. Granted the titles were never consecutive, but pounding out great season after great season with no epic drama or failure to make the playoffs like some other greats from the post-Jordan era make Duncan a rare talent.
Underappreciated is the next word that comes to mind after consistent. As his career is in a decline, nobody is picking apart everything he does wondering if he’s still got “it” like they do with Kobe Bryant or did with Shaq. The sports press doesn’t crown Duncan after a big double-double like they do when Kobe goes out and drops 30 points. Duncan just plays his game, and the Spurs keep winning but people don’t take notice. Of course he doesn’t have more than maybe another season or two left since he’s winding down, but he still has those moments like when he abused Birdman a couple weeks ago.
It is very sad people just accept Duncan is great, but not exactly how great. He never had the high profile personality and moves of the guards like Bryant or Iverson, or the excitement of Shaq and Garnett, but he did something the rest of them didn’t do: win regularly. He is the greatest power forward in the history of the game and such an amazing talent yet he seems to be taken for granted.
But still, between Jordan’s retirement in 98 and LeBron’s coming of age in 2008, we have a ten year gap that people will define differently. If you ask most people who the greatest basketball player was in that era after Jordan beats Utah and before LeBron starts having historic regular seasons and winning MVPs, they will say Kobe Bryant. Some might say Shaq since he swung the balance of power in the NBA after winning three titles in LA then making the Heat a championship team. Some may even say Allen Iverson was the guy in the first few years of that decade, but really there was one guy from the start of the 98-99 season all the way to the 2007 NBA Finals.
Kobe may have won the fan voting for the NBA’s Player of the Decade Award in 2010, but Kobe has quit in playoff games, thrown tantrums that forced teammates out of LA, and has missed the playoffs. Shaq got fat and his quality of play dropped drastically by the second half of that decade. Meanwhile Tim Duncan was the model of consistency, but he was lacking the flash and ego of guys like Kobe and Shaq and never got the attention he deserved. He has won all four series he’s played in the NBA Finals, making the Spurs the only franchise other than Jordan’s Chicago Bulls to win multiple titles with no defeats. In the history of the NBA only two teams can claim multiple trips to the Finals and leaving with the championship every time. Stunning.
Tim Duncan is maybe the most unexciting superstar in the history of basketball. Watch his top ten highlights on Youtube. They are not electrifying in the slightest. The Onion has a slew of hilarious stories about Duncan in situations where he hams it up by arching his eyebrow slightly, gives a speech on fiscal responsibility, give a three hour pep talk, and forwards an article on a particle accelerator to his teammates. They are weird stories and of course fake, but so little is known about Duncan you could easily believe any of these being true.
In Bill Simmons’ The Book of Basketballl, really it is just the NBA Bible, Simmons gives the quintessential account on Duncan’s career. Anything said here is owed majorly to Simmons for his work since I wasn’t following the league close enough in the first years of Duncan’s dominance to know what was what. Simmons wrote a text book on the NBA and classes should be taught on it. Anything you ever need to know about the game is summed up there, and his section on Tim Duncan is one of the most important parts.
Tim Duncan has never cared about personal glory or statistics. He’s always just wanted to get everybody involved, play good defense, and win. Whatever the Spurs need he does if it means they can win. Scoring, rebounding, defense, you name it he does it. When the Spurs needed a big three to force another overtime against the Suns in the Playoffs, the guy who hadn't even hit a three all season steps up and drills it to effectively end the Phoenix Suns.
His nickname is The Big Fundamental, the perfect fit for a player who goes out and plays perfectly. That jab step or post up followed by a bank jumper is one of the most unstoppable and devastating moves in the history of the league. He’s never had the flash or flare of other players from his generation so he never got the credit. Hell, if Kevin Garnett had won a ring or two on the Timberwolves who knows how much people would even bother remembering Duncan’s consistency?
And that is what makes Duncan so amazing. The man is consistent. His career averages of 20 points, 11 boards, 3 assists, and 2 blocks are pretty awesome and when you look at the career stats you see he only failed to average 20 points once in his first 10 years. The numbers have taken a dip lately as he’s getting older and now but he’s still putting up 14.7 points and 8.9 boards, with 2.5 assists. Part of it is age, and part of it is Coach Gregg Popovich saving Duncan up for the playoffs. Either way he still puts in effective minutes like his 21-13 game on Orlando just a week ago then his epic 16-19 with 5 blocks against the Thunder two nights later. Both games were wins. He had 19-17 with 5 blocks in a win against Memphis last month, preceeded by 13-15 against the Thunder. Last night he gave the Timberwolves 21 and 15 in yet another win. People don’t remember Duncan blowing up a stat line like LeBron James, but he gets big numbers and big wins.
In Duncan’s previous 14 seasons, the Spurs failed to win 50 games only one: the lockout-shortened 1998-99 season in which there was only 50 games. Every year he has played, the Spurs have been in the Playoffs. That’s coming up on 15 years straight now, a streak no other team in the league is close to right now. They have made the playoffs as a 5 seed once, and that was in Duncan’s rookie season in 1998, and as a 7 seed in 2010. Other than that there was 5 appearances at the 1 seed, 2 as the second seed, 4 as the third, and just one as the fourth seed. In a footnote from Simmons’ book, he points out that, “From 1997 to 2008, San Antonio finished 615-265 with him during the regular season, 91-57 in the playoffs, won four titles, and finished 4-0 in the Finals. Now that’s consistency.”
Currently the Spurs are the 2 seed in the West thanks to an unholy, MVP-level year from Tony Parker, but Duncan has aged with grace and taken on a supporting role perfectly and can still take over when he needs to, especially since Manu Ginobili has not been effective this year. But people don’t pay attention because, as Simmons points out, people are bothered that Duncan is so consistent. As Simmons says, “If you keep banging out first-class seasons with none standing out more than any other, who’s going to notice after a while?” It is the truth.
Duncan has back-to-back MVP wins in 2002-3, with his 2003 win being the last time somebody won MVP and an NBA Championship in the same season. As stated before the Spurs are the one of only two teams to win multiple NBA titles without ever losing a Finals series. Granted the titles were never consecutive, but pounding out great season after great season with no epic drama or failure to make the playoffs like some other greats from the post-Jordan era make Duncan a rare talent.
Underappreciated is the next word that comes to mind after consistent. As his career is in a decline, nobody is picking apart everything he does wondering if he’s still got “it” like they do with Kobe Bryant or did with Shaq. The sports press doesn’t crown Duncan after a big double-double like they do when Kobe goes out and drops 30 points. Duncan just plays his game, and the Spurs keep winning but people don’t take notice. Of course he doesn’t have more than maybe another season or two left since he’s winding down, but he still has those moments like when he abused Birdman a couple weeks ago.
It is very sad people just accept Duncan is great, but not exactly how great. He never had the high profile personality and moves of the guards like Bryant or Iverson, or the excitement of Shaq and Garnett, but he did something the rest of them didn’t do: win regularly. He is the greatest power forward in the history of the game and such an amazing talent yet he seems to be taken for granted.
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